decide who is the best to lead the nation the next four careers. a lot of interest more in the v.p. one than the top of the ticket. thanks for tweeting back. that is it for us here in washington. stick around for "fox news captioned by closed captioning services, inc. >> chris: i'm chris wallace. there are 58 days until the election. and a new jobs report drives the debate on the campaign trail. with more people leaving the workforce than were hired last month, we'll have a debate on what it takes to get america back on the job. between glen hubbard, top economic advisor to mitt romney and austan goolsbee, former chairman of president obama's council of economic advisors. then a rising political star from the republican convention. we'll sit down with mayor mia love with hopes to come to washington. and with the conventions over the campaigns start the sprint

to the november finish lin. we will ask our sunday panel how the next two months will play out, all right now on "fox news sunday." >> chris: and hello again from fox news in washington. with the conventions over and the big debates coming next month, we want to focus on the one issue that will dominate the campaign all the way to november. getting america back to work. joining us are two former chairmen of the white house council of economic advisors. from new york, glen hubbard who is now a senior advisor to mitt romney and from chicago, austan goolsbee who is an obama supporter. gentlemen, let's start with the latest jobs numbers. the economy added 96,000 jobs last month. the unemployment rate dropped from 8.3 to 8.1% but that was because 368,000 people stopped looking for work. the percentage of americans in the labor force is now 63.5%, that is the lowest since 1981

of workforce participation is where it was when president obama took office the unemployment rate would be 11.2%. mr. hubbard. a lot of numbers and all add up to this question why is the jobs picture so dismal? >> you framed it well and add to that that more than a million more people unemployed than the day the president took office. some structural headwinds to be sure. largely a story about growth. we have anemic growth in the u.s. economy. could do better with better policy. the fed chairman argued that two million of the jobs created since recession were created as a result of the fed's policy. very weak growth, indeed. >> chris: how could the president say he is look out for the middle class when we as we workforce participation at a 31 year low? >> well, let's separate two things. the first is as in good months and in bad months all

economists say and glen said when was in the white house you never want to tea take one mons report. look over the last year the unemployment rate is down a full percentage point and most of that is from people getting new jobs. not from a reduction in the labor force. the bureau of labor statistics keeps track of people who are discouraged workers. and the number of discouraged workers actually fell. so i think the fact that some people are choosing to go to school and that shows up in the data at the end of the summer is not a surprise. the fact that the population has been aging and there are people retiring. but i do agree with glen that the root of the problem is modest growth in the u.s. faster than the rest of the advanced world, however. the entire world economy is in a very tough spot because we are still struggling to get out of the worst recession in our lifetimes. >> chris: okay, let me -- >> and i think putting a focus

on broad-based growth is better than big tax cuts and count on that. >> chris: we will get now let's focus and that is the reason we wanted to have you two guys here is to it talk about who has the better plan. we heard a lot over the last two weeks at the two conventions. i want to focus on the obama and romney plans to jump start the economy and perhaps the biggest difference at this point is taxes. here is what the president said saturday. >> tax cuts when times are good. tax cuts when times are bad. tax cuts to help you lose a few extra pounds. tax cuts to help your love life. >> chris: mr. hubbard, mitt romney says your candidate says that he wants to cut all of the tax rates across the board 20%. now, for the president says this is more of the same trickle down economics that got us in this mess in the first place. basic question, why is cutting taxes on the wealthy good and why is raising taxes on the wealthy bad? >> first of all, governor romney is proposing is an

across-the-board cut in marginal tax rates for every household in america by 20 about percent and we will have to broaden the base to pay for that. also a deep cut in the corporate rate. most economists believe that fundamental tax reform the romney plan as a variant of that is powerful for growth. i can't imagine an argument that says that raising marginal tax rates on high income people many of whom are business owners is a recipe for economic growth. one can debate fairness arguments but i'm not aware of any arguement that would suggest getting back to the growth we just talked about in the previous question is facilitated by raising taxes not tax reform. >> chris: mr. goolsbee, why does raising taxes at this point. you just said we have weak growth, why would you raise taxes on anybody, let alone the wealthy? >> president obama cut taxes for 95% of america. he is talking about broad-based growth. i do not believe that having the rates go back to what they

were in the '90s will have any negative impact that is significant on the economy and you can use the money for things that are important like cutting taxes for businesses that hire people rather than cutting taxes on the estates of billionaires or cutting taxes is for mitt romney's horse which counts as a business under their small business definition. >> chris: but mr. goolsbee, back in 2010 the president said that he opposed raising taxes on any one including the wealthy because he said the economy was too weak. let's take a look at what he said then. >> potentially you would see a lot of folks losing business. more folks potentially losing jobs. that would be a mistake when the economy has not fully taken off. >> chris: when the president said that, mr. goolsbee, the economy was growing at a rate of 2.3%. and he said at that point the economy was too fragile to raise taxes on the wealthy.

the economy is now growing at a rate of 1.7%. it is even weaker. so why raise taxes now when it was too fragile back then? >> chris, i disagree with your premise. the predominant thing that he was saying there was not that let's not go raise taxes on the wealthy at this moment. it was to extend the unemployment benefits to extend the payroll tax cuts, to extend a whole series of things. >> chris: , sir,, we can go back it was in january of 2010. wait a minute, mr. goolsbee. >> that was a deal. they made a deal in 2010, chris. >> chris: you are mixing it up. that was the deal that was made in december of 2010. the tape i just played for you was at the republican retreat in baltimore in january of 2010, 11 months earlier when the president said not as part of any negotiation with congress, it is too soon and it is the wrong time to raise

taxes. >> in january of 2010, the unemployment rate is almost two full percentage points higher than it is now. i will think that is a very selective choice. the president's never made any -- >> chris: but the economy is weaker now, sir. but the economy is at a weeker rate. 1.7% and it was at 2.3 about percent back then. >> chris, you are -- your clip is trying to suggest that the president about's -- that the leading concern for economic growth is that we not raise taxes on high income people. the focus of his program is broad-based growth, tax cuts for people that hire, a hiring tax cut rather than abolishing the estate tax, cutting high income people about's taxes by trillions of dollars. that just will not work. it didn't work in 2001 when the same people proposed it. and use used it. >> chris: , well, let me bring

up mr. hubbard. you are part of the team in 2001. how do you respond? >> let's be careful. first of all, governor romney is talking about tax reform, not large tax cuts and i guess my question for austan following yours, chris is, why would we believe that four more years of this policy or hiring tax credits or whatever else the president has on the table will take growth to the next level? i just don't know of any economic evidence that that is the case. each year the administration has forecast that faster growth is around the two year corner and it hasn't happened and it won't until we change course. >> chris: mr. goolsbee? >> a, the government forecasted at the end of 2009 that the judge employment rate at the end of 2012 would be 8.2%. so since we -- everyone has seen the depth of the recession that we saw at the beginning of 2009 we have been plugging along at modest growth because

we are coming out of the worst financial crisis in our lifetimes. that is what happens. so as you look at what will work, a, going back to a policy that absolutely did not lead to growth and would blow a giant hole in the deficit is not accurate. and b, we have added more are than 4.5 million private sector jobs in the last two and a half year. it has got to be faster, we have got to add more. but going to a policy which in the first term of george bush created 1 million fewer jobs than president obama has created in his first term makes no sense. that is not a policy that is going to get us out of this problem. we have got to have growth. >> chris: let me bring in mr. hubbard because this is is something you heard a lot in the democratic convention, mr. hubbard which was that no president given the nature of this particular recession could have turned things around by

this point basically four years into a term. what do you think of that argument? >> i just don't think it is true. we have seen deep rehe sections in america's past, both deep past and more recent past where recoveries have been much more vigorous even with deep financial holes. wispiered the wrong policies. george bush and bill clinton are not on the ballot. mitt romney and barack obama are on the ballot. romney is proposing tax reform and regulatory reform and a wise budget strategy and trade and the president has proposed tax increases. >> chris: i want to move on to another subject and this is that both romney and obama say that one of the keys to dealing with the economy is to dealing with the huge and growing debt we have. let's take a look at their plans. the president calls for $4 trillion in deficit reduction over the next ten years but $1 trillion of that is from the spending cuts he and congress agreed to last august.

$848 billion is from ending the wars in iraq and afghanistan which was money we were never going to spend any way and is bore road. and $800 billion from lower debt payments. mr. goolsbee, i have looked at the president's plan. he has almost no tough spending cuts. doesn't shrink the size of government and does nothing serious about structural reform of entitlements. >> look, i -- the premise of that question is unilateral action and the overriding summary the president has put forward is he put forward a budget in the discussion of the budget and in the debate last year over the dent ceilin debtt would get to the $4 trillion goal that came from bowles but part with taxes and part with spending cuts. >> chris: but the spending cuts he is talking about the -- if i may, if i may, mr. goolsbee. you would agree that the spending cuts that he put forward that are in his budget plan are largely bogus.

>> no, you just added largely bogus and i do not agree with that. we have had major cuts on various parts of the defense discretionary of ten year freeze. the budget window is a ten year window. the alternative that mr. romney is putting forward is no specifics. he is proposed specifically $5 trillion of tax cuts and you heard mr. hubbard saying what mr. romney says which is i will go find some loopholes to close to pay for that. >> chris: let me interrun because i want to go if i can because it as legitimate point to mr. hubbard on that. romney's plan. he says he wants to cut $500 billion from the deficit by 2016 and balance the budget by 2020 but offer foss details and this fact he would actually increase defense spending by as much as $2 trillion over the ten years. and he would rescind the $716 billion in medicare cuts

that the president gets in obama care. the question, mr. hubbard and this is also true about not detailing what tax deductions, what loopholes you are going to close. why not level with voters and say how you are going to achieve these very admirable goals? >> i think duff romney has a two part budget plan that levels with voters far more so than any candidate in my lifetime. the first is to bring government spending down to 20% of gdp. >> chris: but he doesn't say how he will do it, sir? >> block granting the medicaid row gram which is hardly a nonbold claim. on the tax side, fundamental tax reform and a healthier economy will produce a revenue share of gdp long in the range. longer term it is about entitlements. he said on social security he would raise the retirement age gradually. reduce the rate of growth for benefits for upper income households and reduce the rate of benefits for upper income

households in medicare, too. that is a program. one can disagree with it but a program that leads to lower deficits and debt and higher growth. >> chris: 30 seconds administration goolsbee. >> look, objective people that have sat down and looked at what mitt romney has proposed suggest that it will increase the deficit by trillions of dollars and if they wanted to even cover the income tax cut portion of what he has proposed for high income people they would have to raise taxes on the middle class quite substantially. >> that is not true. >> it my point is simple. in 2001 when george bush comes into office he gets the conditions of a recession that he didn't create and the response. >> chris: i have to interrupt. >> it was worse. >> chris: okay. we will leave it there. won't work. i want to thank you both so much. mr. hubbar hubbard and mr. gooe will have you back and we will stay on top of the debate over how to get americans working

again. thanks again both of you. up next, she brought the house down at the republican convention. we will talk with rising gop star mia love, when we come back. [ mother ] you can't leave the table till you finish your vegetables. [ clock ticking ] [ male announcer ] there's a better way... v8 v-fusion. vegetable nutrition they need, fruit taste they love. could've had a v8... [ male announcer ] you've reached the age where you don't back down from a challenge. this is the age of knowing how to make things happen. sowhy let erectile dysfunction get in your way? talk to your doctor about viagra. 20 million men already have. ask your doctor if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take viagra if you take nitrates for chest pain; it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. side effects include headache, flushing, upset stomach, and abnormal vision.

to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. stop taking viagra and call your doctor right away if you experience a sudden decrease or loss in vision or hearing. this is the age of taking action. viagra. talk to your doctor.

mr. president, i'm here to tell you the american people are awake and we are not buying what you are selling in 2012. >> chris: mia love in her debut on the national political stage at the republican convention. the mayor of saratoga springs, utah who is now running for congress and joins us from salt lake city. mayor love, welcome to "fox

news sunday." >> thank you for having me, chris. >> chris: you are a black woman who is a favorite of the tea party and you are running to be the first female black republican ever elected to congress. for a lot of people who don't know you, how did you turn out the way you did? >> well, my parents immigrated to this country from haiti with $10 in their pockets and worked hard for everything that they have. my parent taught me that we weren't entitled to anything that we didn't own, work for or pay for ourselves and i learned those principles. >> chris: when you were starting college your father gave you marching orders which have become kind of a guiding principle for you. what did he say? >> well, i took my dad with me because he is the fun parent and he said mia your mother and i have done everything we could to get you here today. we worked hard.

we have never teak and handout you are not going to be a burden to see society you will give back. thank goodness it didn't go in one ear and out the other and it resonated with me and stuck with me. >> chris: let's go through the positions you are advancing in your campaign for congress mayor love. you want to cut federal spending $759 billion by 2021 including cut food subsidies by 50% or are $53 billion and k-12 subsidies another $53 billion and end college assistance $33 billion. question, what happens to all of those millions of people including a lot of minorities who depend on those programs? >> well, there are different things. there are different approaches. first of all, that program i put out so that we can start a discussion. i haven't set anything in stone. i want to make sure that we -- i hit the ground run something we have to start the discussion. but if you take for instance education. we are having -- we are trying to see how much debt we could

actually give people and the option that i would like to look at t bringing the cost of tuition down so that we give more people the opportunity for higher education. >> chris: how do you get these colleges and i know as the father of six kids who i put through college how do you get the tuitions down? >> well, because federal government has just drown out the private sector we have to do everything that we can because the price of tuition has gone up over 500% since the '80s. if you think about it now, there are people that can't go to college today because the price of tuition is way too high unless they are completely indebted. so we have to bring some of these things to a state level. we can start letting the private sector come in and compete and i think that those will help drive the price of tuition down. that way we give more people opportunity for a higher education. >> chris: but democrats say that you are being hypokittal in the call for ending

subsidies for college education noteing that you list between $15,000 and $50,000 in outstanding college loans. how do you respond? >> i respond by i wish i had more options. because we are still trying to pay some of those things off and what i would love to do is be able to be in a position where i'm not -- i don't have that debt. i want my children to be able to have a college education without having as much debt and many people are leaving college right now they are completely indebted and can't find work to pay off some of those loans. is going to happen with the college education, it is the same thing that happened with the housing market. we are are going to end up being in big trouble when people can't pay back those loan. >> chris: let me talk about another subject. democrats are accusing our party ever waging a war are on women, wanting to take away choice on abortion and wanting to cut federal funding for planned parenthood and limit

access to insurance for birth control. how do you respond to these charges that republicans are waging a war on women? >> well, think about this. under president obama i think women have suffered a little bit more. if you think about it, 5.7 million women are out of work. we have gone from 7% unemployment to 7.8% unemployment. i would like federal government to let me keep a little bit of my own money so i could pay for my own contraceptives if i want to. >> chris: that is one of the criticisms that republicans level back at democrats and say all they are talking about is women about's reproductive rights and not talking about the economy. >> well, again, to me t is about choice. and i want -- i want more free choice. more are liberties than anything else. and so i think that federal government trying to be -- trying to get bring this so-called war on women, i think it is just a way to distract from the fact that they are not

talking about their failed policies which is, again -- >> chris: when you say choice, democrats would say your party wants to take away the choice when it comes to abortion? >> well, i -- the role that government does play is to protect life, liberty and the pursuit of happen aboutpiness and i think that we should be protecting life. i'm prolife person and i believe that you have more choices before somebody ends up getting pregnant and i think it is important that we are able to have the freedom to exercise that choice and it is up to you how you want to do that. but i don't think that we should be getting into the weeds on all of this because i think that these are things that we teach in my own home. these are things that are private. we should just focus on the economy and what is happening with the economy. >> chris: let's talk about your record because you have been the mayor of saratoga springs since 2010. before that you were a member of the city council. i want to ask you about your

record. on the council you voted to double property taxes. we should point out saratoga springs was a small town of 3,000. huge growth to 16,000. you voted to double property taxes. as mayor you voted to cut them back some but are there times when it is just necessary to raise taxes? >> look, our city was an agricultural city. we went -- we never set a municipal tax ever. when the housing market dropped we were faced with major short fall. and so what we had to do was first we cut spending. we made sure that we cut 30% on some of the lower hells. 67% on the higher levels. and then our property tax when we set it for the first time we made sure that it pays for nothing but public safety. there is a role that government plays and this is to make sure that we are keeping our city safe. with that being said we hold the highest bond rating available. i was able to lower taxes as the first year as mayor and

weare on firm financial standing. our city is doing well and i think washington can take a note from that. >> chris: we have a couple of minutes left and you led me in the direction i want to go. from your vantage point of saratoga springs what do you think of washington? >> i think washington is broken. household incomes down $4,000. gas prices doubled. unemployment 8%. 14% among black americans. $16 trillion of debt. healthcare premiums going up. and so we have got two choices when it comes to presidential candidates. we have a president that wants more tax and more regulation and bigger government and we he he have somebody else governor romney who wants to champion small business. he wants to create 12 million jobs through the private sector. lower the tax rate, broaden the base. affordable education. energy independence.

ask yourself two questions. am i better off than i was four years ago? am i happenmy with the direction the country is going? if it is no and no then the clear choice is president romney. >> chris: you are in a tough race right now against a democratic incumbent congressman. you say, washington, is broken. how would you like to change, washington, if you come here? >> well, again, we are going to have to lower the debt. we have to try and do what we can to lower deficit spending. >> chris: if it i -- if i may, mayor. i'm less talking about policy and more the way business is done in washington. how would you try and change that? >> oh, i think one of the things is i would like to see he a plan come from both party. we he have a plan that comes from the republican party but it has been three years since we had a plan come from the democratic party. we have to start working together. you have to understand where i nonpartisan.run nonpar arety

i don't say what party affiliation are you before i figure out what their plans are. we have to be able to coming to and find solutions instead of rhetoric and set ising people up against each other in terms of dividing this country. we have to come together as americans and fix the problems that we are facing today. and we need leadership not someone who is going to follow from behind. but leadership and saying these are the solutions, let's look at these and try and see what we can do to get this country back on firm financial standing. >> chris: mayor love, i want to thank you so much for coming in and talking with us today and we will see how things go for you in november. thanks for coming. >> thank you, chris. thank you. >> chris: with the conventions over and the fall campaign officially underway we will ask our sunday group to look ahead to the next 58 days.

the past we offer may be harder but it leads -- the path we offer may be harder but a leads to a better place and i'm asking you to choose that future. >> he doesn't have a plan. he doesn't have any ideas and we have to make sure he doesn't have any more days in the white house after january. >> chris: president obama and governor romney going after votes on the campaign trail saturday and it is time for our sunday group. brit hume, fox news senior political analyst. mara liasson of national public radio. kimberly straussel from the

"wall street journal" and fox news political analyst juan williams. now, polling numbers seem to show that president obama got a bit of a bounce from the democratic convention. put them up on the screen. on thursday, gallup's 7 day rolling average had obama leading romney by one point. but as of saturday the lead has grown to 4 points, 49% to 45. trust me. i guess we are not going to see those. there we go. brit, whey do you make of that? flue is think that the democrats got more out of their convention than the republicans got out of theirs. going second is better. we really saw that four years ago that the convention held right on the heels of the end of the previous one can step all over the effect of that and refocus the audience. it was a better week i think. the republicans were in the last week before labor day. democrats started after labor day when i think more people are home and watching. and i think that there is still

something about barack obama. there is still a certain magic about him that people will tune in to see. it was notable that the audience ratings were higher for the democratic convention than for the republican. and that it strikes me that his speech combined with the other presentations at the convention had some power and how long this bounce will h last, i think is still essentially a tied race, is anybody's guess but i think the democrats got more out of their convention. >> chris: we will talk more in detail about the convention in the next segment. but mar are a, does the president enter the final eight weeks with however small a lead both in general popular support and maybe more specifically in terms of the key electoral is swing states? >> i think there is no doubt about it. he has a small but is significant lead. it has been really consistent and we are entering to into the phase of the race where the national horse race numbers don't matter much. click on the maps and look at the 8 to 10 battleground states

and he has been consistently up in those states for a very long time and i think this bounce is going to help him. don't forget the obama campaign wasn't predicting a bounce. they were predicting a turnout benefit. this was a convention that was aimed at their base and what you do see not only does he have a lead in the battle ground but he has more ways to get to 270 lectorral votes than romney does. romney has more must-win states than president obama. he has got to get ohio and virginia and florida. >> chris: kim, a number of political observers thought that the bad jobs numbers that we saw and they certainly were bad by any definition on friday, would blunt whatever advantage that the president had coming out of the convention. we should point out that the gallup poll we have seen all of the numbers were taken before the friday jobs report came out. so we don't know what the effect of that will be. some folks are now suggesting that maybe people have already factored in the fact this is a weak recovery that we are just going to have 8% unemployment

and may to some degree be discounting that and it may not have the dampening effect that we are talking about. >> i find it hard to leave that you are one of those that gave up trying to find that job that you are discounting and deciding this is the new normal. the thing to watch by the way because this is what democrats will be watching out of this convention. one of the main things they were trying to do is energize all of the sub sectors so important in 2008 to the president's election. when you look at the polls including the gallup one, one of the things democrats are concerned about is not all likely voters are likely to ghostwrote. what you are seeing in the polls again and gel -- are likely to vote. when you ask republicans how likely they are to vote on a scale of one to 10, 7, 8, 9. democrats are saying three, four, five. those are the numbers that democrat letts be watching after the convention to see if they actually convinced women,

hispanics, the youth vote to get out there and vote on election day. >> chris: juan? >> the key thing that strikes me is the swing states. when you look at the bounce right now if you look at pennsylvania right now the republicans are saying they have pretty much given up and out of reach. ohio, obama a strong lead. virginia, nevada, colorado, wisconsin, michigan. so north carolina is the one swing state where i think romney has a slight lead right now but it is not beyond the margin of aaron. still highly competitive. if you look at that, what you come back to is money. where is the advantage here for the republicans? the advantage is in terms of not only romney and the republican national committee fund raising, chris, but also in terms of the super pacs. they have a substantial advantage and there will be a deluge of advertising from the republicans through september and october that i don't think the president is going to be able to match. as you know, rahm emanuel the mayor of chicago resigned from the president's campaign and

honorary position to help bill burton and the democratic super pac to raise money to try to match it. what will be the impact of all of that republican advertising? can it change some of the favorability numbers that also bounced up for the president at the convention? >> chris: brit, i want to go back to the question of the economy. people have seen that the economy is lousy for a long time now and mitt romney has made the case nonstop that the president hasn't fixed the economy. is that enough? so far it doesn't seem enough to get him up over the top. is that enough or does he have to do something else? >> he leads on the economy and has led consistently. as that turns out to be the principal motivator of the vote that is a huge difference. >> chris: but he doesn't lead in the horse race. >> i hear you. in the end we he still have some time to go here are. i still think that the decisive factor in the race like almost any other presidential race will be the conditions in the country and how they are perceived.

let me touch on-the-job numbers for a moment. i don't think that the bad jobs report materially changes the way people feel about the economy. the president needs is people to begin to feel differently about the economy at least to have more hope. if you think about the message that he transmitted during the convention it was give me more time, we are on the ride track, it as hard long road but we are going to get there. think of what he would have been able to do with a really good jobs report. late though it may be in the game in terms his message and advertiseing that would put some evidence under his convention appeal. he didn't get it. in fact, he got an exceedingly weak jobs report which i think does deplate hi deflate his meo some extent. >> he only has two more jobs reports. they said the numbers don't matter, it is the trend, the direction. this one went backwards. one thing the president has been trying to do and he got some help from mitt romney i

think is he wants to focus this on the future not the present. i think romney left a lot of that on the table in tampa and could have done more. >> but obama said nothing. >> i agree. but i think the to me the answer, if he is going to hit on the economy why isn't he doing better in the horse race is because people weren't quite sure what he would do. they know the economy is bad. they don't are need the romney campaign to tell them oh he again.ca moser and oveover andr >> their decision to focus the argument. >> which convention? >> the democratic convention. the decision to make the entire convention about the argument these were republican policies that led to today's economic malaise and if you choose mitt romney things will go backward is that is underlined and highlighted that the president had no message of his own. people were waiting for it saying what are you going to do next. instead the message was we are going to kind of keep doing the

same thing we are doing. i'm not sure if you are an american voter suffering that you want to hear well just give it more time. >> to the contrary, what you saw at convention was for the democrats a clear enunciation of values and vision from the democrats and when you talk about steps they are willing to teak in order to bolster the economy they are talking about investing in for example education, reeducation, infrastructure, training and the like. i think that is a very clear vision. what we saw from mitt romney was a contrary vision and people made it out to be that he is about profits, with cutting debt, more so than he is is about caring for the american people. i don't think that was if if you you think about framing argument, i don't think that was to the republican advantage and i think that is why mitt romney did not get any bounce versus the democrats. bill clinton's business about they made a mess and their argument is is you didn't clean t up fast enough so you got to give austan chance to get back. i think was a tremendously strong framing argument.

>> chris: we to take a break here but we will continue the discussion and when we come waco with both conventions now, in the books, how did each party set up the campaigns for the last eight weeks and a look ahead to the next big event on the calendar, the october debates.

this president can ask us to be patient. this president can tell us it was someone else's fault. this president can tell us that the next four years he will get it right. but this president cannot tell us that you are better off today than when took office. >> when you elected -- you elected me to tell you the truth and the truth is it will

take more than a few years for us to solve challenges that have built up over decades. >> chris: the two nominees in the convention acceptance speeches. each delivering his central message on how voters should see the economy. we are back now with the panel. brit, i think the common theme there was patience. the president is saying we are on the right track but it will take more time be patient. and romney is saying time's up. who has the better side of that argument? >> i think, look, by any normal standards if you have four years to get an economy growing again by this time in every recession that we have remember going back to the great depression the economy have growing briskly robustly by this time. four years is more than this of time and i think most people would agree on that. on that point romney has the better argument. just looking at him there, though, i'm thinking how do people take him. he looks presidential enough. dignified and doesn't look like

there is anything wrong with him. but it is something is keeping him from breaking through. and t is interesting to is speculate about what it is. i'm not sure i know. >> chris: mara, back to the question of patience. you have bill clinton and a lot of people think it was the single most effective moment in the convention when said no one, not even me. >> not even me. >> chris: i know. and knowing what we think bill clinton thinks of bill clinton that is a testimonial, could have turned things around in four years. what about the question time's up as opposed to give me more time. >> you would think that mitt romney has the better argument. the economy just sink. no one has ever won let alone run with an economy this bad. one of the reasons i think is for some reason the republicans decided to husband the resources towards the end and the democrats took a page out of george w. bush playbook and earlyd to use the money

and tried to define romney in the space between the primaries and the conventions when romney was a blank slate. people didn't know who he was. you heard a story you told about bain capital that romney didn't counter and didn't even counter at the conventions really. he didn't really explain what bain did. >> he personally didn't. other speakers did. >> they tried. in a way that would say i'm going to do for you what i did for all of these wealthy investors. somehow i'm going to make you better off and i think that the democratic advertising has helped. now, hasn't helped that much because obama isn't much ahead in the horse race either but i you think it did it help suppress romney. >> chris: kim? >> mara has a good point which is that romney has done an excellent job of talking about everything the president has not done well. he has not managed to rebut the attacks on him. in particular, the argument in the last two months that it were republican policies that got us into the mess and he is a return to that.

he needs to have a story about what actually happened to led up to the recession and why it wasn't necessary. >> chris: do you really think people want to relitigate the bush years? >> i don't think they want to but want to hear an economic argument that makes the case this was not bush tax policy that got us to where we are which is one of the sort of bizarre arguments that you get from democrats these days but that free market policies are actually a way to revive the economy and he has to go out there and more forcefully defend and promote member. this is where i think his money is going to help. i don't think they will be spending most attacking the president. they will be out there trying to make the positive case which is something they weren't able to it do. >> chris: he may have convinced people that obama's policies are wrong and may even have convinced them that i can make businesses and profits but has he convinced them for the average middle class american he will make their lives better? >> i think that is part of the

problem. and that gets into a lot of different areas, not just a story about what happened. he has to talk about his tax plan. present it as tax reform. americans like the idea of tax reform. the democrats are trying to present it as a tax cut. a state forward tax cut that doesn't poll as well. doesn't do as well. romney actually is presenting as it happens a tax reform. those are the things that americans want to hear. they do think will have a positive impact on their life but he hasn't necessarily done it well, yet. >> chris: juan? >> when i look at the polls americans do not think that the economy stinks. they think we went into a terrible situation and we are slowly making progress which helps is president obama in terms of the patience argument that you were talking about, chris. >> chris: right track, wrong track, isn't that negative right now? >> it was negative in the last election and negative through the last decade right track wrong track has been over 60%. up as high as 80%. people don't like, washington. they like the congress even less than they like the

president. so i'm just telling you it is right track wrong track is not the indicator here. when americans are asked about the economy even in focus groups they start talking about wall street is doing good and my pension is doing okay and then start talking about things like gdp and the president's argument about slow anemic but steady job growth up, up, up, does carry some potent icy here. i would say some of the economic numbers are baked into the argument that the point. i don't think the next two job reports unless they are dramatic are going to make that much difference. what you come back to then is what is it that mitt romney has to say that would convince people and i think the argument coming from the president is it would just be going back to the bush years and that is not a winning argument for romney. >> chris: let's turn to the next big event on the campaign calendars and there is a drama going on every day as the two guys, four guys including the running mates, are on the campaign trail. but the next big event are going to be the four debates in october. starting and we have the

calendar here with the presidential debate and vice presidential debate and two more presidential debates. the conventional wisdom brit is with the exception of kennedy in 1960 and regan in 1980 that debates is don't make all that much of a difference and don't swing the general trend of the campaign. how important do you think these debates will be? >> that conventional wisdom is rooted in fact. the effect that the debates had, rarely have they proved to be divisive. most of the time people for candidate a think that candidate won and people for candidate b think that candidate. and the state of the race is left in place by the outcome of the debates. it could we a little different this year. president obama is on the same stage with this businessman for whom he apparently has personal disdain. how that plays out might have an effect. i still say that in the end people vote on whether this man they believe can change the conditions or whether he is too

risky in some ways. so i -- my guess is that romney who has been debating all year and is a much better debater than he was is four years ago will do very well in the debates but i'm not sure that will make the difference. >> the only potential game changer we have left barring some unforeseen event. >> chris: if somebody said we still have dukakis in a tank. >> yes. i think this is the only show in town and think the romney campaign is counting on it being a little like 1980 where people were in the mood to fire the incumbent and weren't so sure about the challenger and regan stood up there in the one and only debate and seen seemed kind of reasonable. romney is the better debater. he had a lot of debates and obama is rusty. >> you think he is a better debater than barack obama? >> at this moment a more experienced debater and fresher. >> chris: less than two minutes left and i want to use the time to take a trip down memory lane over the wonderful two weeks

and i asked you all for a five retirement moment. i will start with you, brit. your favorite moment from the last two weeks. >> what i loved was when debbie wasserman schultz came out and had a wonderful makeover and look at her. i mean at first i looked at her and i didn't quite recognize her. she looks fabulous and i thought she looked great. i thought hoorah for h her. i don't knowsaw her on the about your politics but you look great and she reacted like it was the biggest compliment i ever deliver. >> she looked great. >> mara? >> gabby giffords leading the pledge of allegiance. >> chris: we have to show this and i will say as somebody on the podium. everybody stood and cheered and there weren't a lot of dry eyes in the house to see her come back from this awful shooting and so bravely to lead the pledge of allegiance. kimberly, your favorite moment at either convention? >> susanna a martinez the governor of new mexico speaking at the gop convention. she was endearing and smart and

exactly the sort of person the gop needs to put up that told a story that a lot of people can identify with that needs to be the sort of highlight of the gop party. >> chris: and juan? >> the mayor of san antonio's daughter as the mayor was speaking in the big break out moment decides to flip the hair and it went viral. it went everybody in america thought what a cuteee pie and with her and hergrand mother. >> the crowd was seeing this and laughing because it was up on the screen and he didn't know why people were laughing. anyway, thank you, panel. see you next week. check out panel plus where the group picks up with the discussion on our web side fox news sunday .com. we will post the video before noon eastern time. follow us on twitter @ "fox news sunday." up next, the convention video you didn't see this week in charlotte.

......

>>. >> chris: the political convention featured stirring videos of the two presidential candidates but we prefer this approach the folks of the daily show called barack obama, it could have been worse. >> i put in place an economic stimulus package and the results spoke for themselves. >> people say, well, the stock market didn't fully recover. yeah, but it's recovered more than people expected last year. things are still tough.

they aren't as they bad could have been. unemployment is 9.6 but it's not 12 or 13 or 15. >> or 19 or 80. there is no limit how high numbers can go. >> to make things less bad the recovery is helping. >> it was the obama administration that left it better than more bad. and president and the upon of his office. >> look what he still got done. did we get universal healthcare, no but we with the insurance for coverages -- i don't know the details. the point is it's better than cancer! >> chris: now, that is campaign video. if you were wondering it was larry david that did the narration. we'll see you next fox news sunday.